Transcripts of an online
debate between myself and another.
(I take the Con)
I thank my opponent for her impassioned, albeit narrowly
focused, response.
My opponent has certainly made some interesting arguments to support her
position. And, while it is refreshing to read of someone who has such
faith in a group of people, many of her assertions are such broad
generalizations that I cannot accept them as valid.
She is assigning qualities to an entire set based on her interactions with an
extremely small subset. She has, it would seem, had some excellent
interactions with the breeders with which she was worked. Indeed, she has
had such wonderful experiences that she desires to be a breeder.
Certainly she would not think ill of a group of people she wants to join.
Having personally known three, and wanting to become one myself, I can say
with total certainty that reputable, well-meaning breeders exist. These are the
ones I am defending.
It is quite understandable and simple human nature to assign certain
characteristics to an entire group of people based on the first experiences
with a particular member of the set. The implication is that she has had
negative interactions with what few shelters she has dealt with (if any).
She has offered no indication on what merit she judges the entire set of shelters
or the entire set of breeders.
So, while it heartens me to know that one can have such a string of successes
in ones interactions with a subset of society, I know that this does not give
one proof of the characteristics of the rest of the set. My opponent clearly
stated in her instigating round that if one uses statistics, one has to cite
sources. Granted, numeric statistics have not been used, but implied
statistics (making sweeping statements without qualification) have been used
repeatedly without any citations whatsoever except her limited experience.
These are all sweeping generalizations my opponent has made without providing
foundation:
- Shelters
don’t ensure this. They do not even try.
- There
is no screening process whatsoever.
- They
do not care where these animals go, or where they end up.
- Breeders
are selective about who owns their animals, because they truly care about
the individuals that they raised from birth.
- [Breeders]
are helping the entire species, by(...) ensuring that each and every one
of their animals goes to a loving home.
- If
an animal bred by a breeder cannot find a home, for any reason, the
breeder will keep them as a pet, and the animal will receive just as much
affection and care as their prize champions.
- And
I say with utmost certainty and conviction that this would never have
happened had Mr. Fluffy been born to a breeder.
Certitude is not the test of certainty. We have been cocksure of many things
that were not so.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Specific Refutations
Some people simply do not have the time and patience to tame a feral cat, or
train a hyperactive dog.
Of course they don't. But people who do not have time to train a
hyperactive dog should also not get a Jack Russel Terrier from the breeder,
correct? People who do not have time and patience should get a digital
aquarium. Any kind of dog needs training, regardless of the source.
That is why a pet is a commitment.
It is not difficult to quickly ascertain the personality of an animal. Is
it socialized? Is it hyper? Is it aggressive? Is it scared of
people? I am no animal expert, but even I can figure these out in a few
minutes of interaction with the animal. And, while it can certainly be
said that an animal might exhibit other traits once brought to the home, it cannot
be said that this is particular to rescue animals.
Any pet-quality pedigree is spayed or neutered.
Pro gives no evidence to support her claim.
I have never adopted an animal in which neutering was not a requirement.
Any of the links to shelters and animal societies I have included on this page
will show that most shelters have a policy towards neutering. Even if
Pro's unfounded assertion is true, it does not differentiate the breeder from
the shelter in a positive way.
Instead of letting these animals be adopted, shelters kill them. This is a
practice that I simply cannot condone.
I won't argue that animals are not euthanized. But if you do not condone
the practice, then do something about it. Quit breeding animals, neuter
the ones you have, and adopt instead of purchase. Purebred animals
account for 30% of the animals in shelters [2]. Even if this were not the
case, your judgement is unfair. You assert (I disagree, with caveat) that
some animals are too far gone to be rehabilitated and so should not be adopted,
then you criticize the shelters for not letting them be adopted. And your
solution to this is to breed more animals? You are putting fresh paint on
rotted wood. Your solution only hides the problem.
Furthermore, shelters create a cycle. People buy animals on a whim. Let’s
say a puppy. They buy it thinking it’s cute, and don’t take it to the
veterinarian.
First, let me reiterate that shelters do far more than you seem willing to give
them credit for. A good shelter[3] will have animals checked by
veterinarians and inoculated before adoption[4], and those that don't will
likely have a veterinary visit as a stipulation of adoption. Though my
experience is not all inclusive, I have adopted animals from three different
shelters (two in Missouri and one in Alabama) and worked with one shelter
closely (in Oklahoma). Two of these provided the inoculations and
veterinary checkups and charged a flat fee, while the other two required that a
document from a licensed veterinarian be returned within a month, stating the
neutering, vaccinations, and examinations had been performed.
Second, the assertion that people never buy a purebred puppy on a whim is
outlandish at best. That is why there are so many purebreds in
shelters. If someone wants a puppy, they won't likely go to a shelter,
because shelters have mostly adult animals[7].
There is nothing wrong with wanting to know the history of your animal. If I
bought a dog that belonged to Michael Vick, I’d like to know about it. And a
shelter would not be able to tell me.
Yeah, they would. And it is proof against your assertion that some
animals are too far gone for training[8]. I did not contradict myself,
perhaps you had trouble parsing my statement, and that is my fault. I
said that a dog that was genetically inclined to be aggressive and then trained
to be aggressive may or may not be trained away from it. I know how hard
it is to overcome genetic tendencies, and so I have to stipulate that some
dogs, because of reinforced genetics, will not be successfully rehabilitated.
I asserted that dogs that have only been trained to be aggressive can always be
re-trained. It takes time and love and patience, and so people that just
have money should probably stay away from it. It has taken three years of love
and affection with constant positive reinforcement, but fifteen of Michael
Vick's dogs, that some experts said should have been put down, are successfully being rehabilitated. John Garcia, the manager of the Best
Friends Animal Society, asserts that even dogs that have been bred and
reinforced can be restored.
A veterinarian simply cannot screen for every single genetic disease known
to feline kind.
Nope. But by your own assertion breeders can only tell you if there is a
history of the disease in the family. So, does one take a chance on the
animal? Then what difference does it make that you knew the family
history? Does one refuse to take a chance on the animal? Then why
did the breeders breed an animal that had a history of disease?
I am, perhaps, old fashioned in thinking it is not always best to know the
future. What choices would my parents have made if they could have seen
what a genetic tendency I had to be a problem child? What choices would a
man make if he knew his fiancee' comes from a history of cancer? One
takes a chance getting out of bed in the morning. The only certainty in
life is that we don't make it out alive. Not being able to stack the deck
is not a good reason to not play the game.
The only way to stop pets from going to shelters is to ensure that they
really do go to good, loving homes. Shelters don’t ensure this. They do
not even try. Literally anyone with $200 in their pocket can buy an animal from
a shelter. There is no screening process whatsoever. They do not care
where these animals go, or where they end up.
I have already given evidence of the absurdity of the claim that shelters do
not try to place animals in a good home. And to say that the people do
not even care is hateful, to say the least. The people I have worked with
are some of the most selfless, caring individuals I have ever met that give of
their time, money, and heart to help these animals out. Shame on my
opponent for making such a statement.
The logic here is that, [referring to the high cost of purchasing from a
breeder] if you can afford to buy the pet initially, then you can afford to
feed it, too. And as it grows up, you can afford to take it to the vet for
shots. And if something happens, you can afford to take care of that as well.
First, by saying 'if something happens' you support my contention that not even
knowing the family history or genetic makeup of an animal is proof of future
health or behavior.
Second, the amount of money a person has is not related to the morality of a
person. Just because a person HAS the money to take care of a pet is no
indication that they WILL take care of the pet.
But shelters are like a band-aid on a broken bone.
Yeah, but if all you have is a band-aid, you do what you can. That is
still better than sitting on the sidelines saying, "It shouldn't be like
this." The fact is, it IS like this.
My opponent’s arguments in the previous
round have mainly been emotional. He makes a valid point that animals in
shelters are in immediate need.
But that is what the debate is about, right? The emotional impact of
adopting a pet versus buying a breed? We're not talking about show
animals, we are talking about pets.
I
would argue that buying a pet is also an investment. It's an emotional
investment.
I completely agree. It is an investment. And what gives someone the
highest payoff to my emotional investment? I suppose that depends on the
type of person they are.
I am the kind of person that can see the world as a flawed place, knowing that
I will probably never change all of it (a hard lesson for me to learn), will
still try to make it a little better each day. Helen Keller said that,
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
something that I can do[9]. It is hard, and it is sometimes frustrating,
and often the only reward I get is that I respect the man I see shaving every
morning. But that is enough. That is more than enough.
I get a very good feeling when I have helped someone or something. I am
filled with compassion when I see the plight of shelter animals. I am
filled with gratefulness that I have had the pleasure to share my love with
such wonderful creatures, creatures that may have died had I not stepped
in. The emotional return on my investments has been enormous.
Conclusion:
Many of the reasons that Pro has given have largely been unfair and unfounded
generalizations. I have shown how she is mistaken in her portrayal of
shelters, and so such comparisons can not be used to make the case that it is
better for someone to purchase from a breeder than adopt from a shelter.
I agree with Pro that responsible breeders are not the same as puppy mills, but
I disagree with her sweeping conclusion that they are all as wonderful as those
with which she has come in contact. I agree with pro that many animals
are euthanized every day in America. I disagree that the solution is to
purposefully breed more animals. Pro asserts that the breeders are happy
to provide a loving home for all the animals that they breed. If this is
true, I suggest they be left to it, and everyone else go rescue an animal from
their local shelter.
This debate is about the positive return one receives from buying a bred animal
compared to rescuing an animal in need. Granted, this has much to do with
the type of person someone is, but if someone has any kind of a heart, then the
emotional return they get from helping an animal in need and providing a loving
home most likely is greater than that from taking a pet from an already loving
home.
I know I am better off from having rescued any of my animals, and so I urge the
audience to vote Con.
[1] http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oliverwend166780.html
[2] http://www.petrescue.com/petlibrary/pet-rescue/spay-or-neuter-your-pet/
[3] http://www.petfinder.com/for-shelters/benchmarks-good-shelter-1.html
[4] http://www.adoptapet.com/adoption_rescue/79797.html
[5] http://cats.lovetoknow.com/Ragdoll_Cat_Rescue
[7] http://www.animalwelfaresociety.org/adpt_adopt_dogs.html
[8]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/31/michael-vick-dogs-pit-bulls_n_816246.html#s232910
[9] http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/helen_keller.html#ixzz1mHU0ogjc